Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits.

In this special episode, Napa Legal's Senior Counsel Frank DeVito is joined by John Bursch, Senior Counsel and Vice President of Appellate Advocacy at ‪@AllianceDefends‬, former Solicitor General of Michigan, and a Napa Legal Good Counselor Project Fellow. John returns as the podcast's first repeat guest for a discussion of two fights that will shape what churches and religious nonprofits are free to say and free to do.
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First, the litigation over the Johnson Amendment. John explains what pastors and priests can already say from the pulpit, why the government's theory rests on the Supreme Court's decision in Catholic Charities Bureau, and what happens next.

Second, Grand v. City of University Heights, which the Supreme Court agreed to hear on June 30. John explains the procedural question the justices will decide in December and why it matters for every American whose religious exercise runs into a zoning code.
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In this episode, we discuss:

0:00 Introduction

0:53 John Bursch's background and his work at Alliance Defending Freedom

1:55 What is the Johnson Amendment and why it matters

2:56 The 1950s origins of the Johnson Amendment

3:26 Is 501(c)(3) status a government benefit or a recognition?

4:27 Why no one has successfully challenged the Johnson Amendment until now

5:27 Obergefell, Verrilli, and the coming fight over tax exemption

6:30 The NRB case: plaintiffs, posture, and a change in administrations

7:30 The stipulated judgment and the district court's rejection

9:31 What the settlement signals to churches right now

10:01 What a priest can actually say from the pulpit

11:32 Two extremes: churches that go all in and churches that self-censor

12:34 The government's theory: unequal burdens on different denominations

13:34 The Catholic Charities Bureau problem

14:36 Applying Catholic Charities to the next generation of cases

15:09 The Anti-Injunction Act and the court's sua sponte dismissal

16:41 Why this is a speech case, not a tax case

17:42 Is the Anti-Injunction Act jurisdictional or waivable?

18:44 What's teed up for the Fifth Circuit and when to expect a decision

20:16 Why "boring" procedural doctrine decides religious liberty cases

21:16 Grand v. City of University Heights: a permit to pray at home

22:46 The cease-and-desist and the call with the mayor

23:16 The zoning hearing and the trap inside the permit

24:47 A pro se cert petition that got the Supreme Court's attention

27:20 Surveillance, spying neighbors, and a city that stopped picking up his trash

28:21 Williamson County, exhaustion, and Section 1983

29:53 What's next in the case

30:23 Conclusion

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